tavspinterogeni

> Miura Spinterogeni - dual Magneti Marelli S85B, S85C, S85CA
single S129C, S129G
also spinterogeno reference for - 350, 400, Espada, Islero, Jarama, Urraco, Jalpa, Countach

I need help with this please - Manuals, catalogs, Parts break downs, service, anything at all.
The Miura P400 - P400S - P400SV dual and single distributors have a natural progression from early models to later models. if yours is different, please send me photos of it and i will post so all can learn and enjoy!
Photos below are a 1968 P400 - click photos for large images

Magneti Marelli S85C	Advance mechanism parts	top and bottom parts	shaft drum assembly	Exploded
			dimensions from low use assembly	IPB for S85A S85B S85C
bottom view of drum, brg	prior to disassembly	top ,points out	installs at 14.15

Photos below 1970 P400S - Geoff Provo

Magneti Marelli S85CA

	note lower gasket, top web plate with no plates/screws.

The curve above would be used on all early Miura and Miura S equipped with S85C and timed to 22 degrees static timing.

The curve above would be used on Miura, Miura S, Miura SV equipped with S85CA and timed to 20 degrees static timing.

Preliminary sketch for out sourcing Marelli distributor advance pins. Extra length will allow you trim tail to fit application.
Anybody willing to confirm these numbers?

bearing size reference - http://www.hmecbearing.com/htm/60000.htm

Helpful comments from lots of people and various sources

   When I came across my first 12 cyl Lamborghini distributor back in 1984-85 that needed some parts, in this case springs, I called the local Magneti Marelli distributor here in Denmark. They were actually pretty helpfull and they contacted the main office in Italy.
The only problem: They did not have any spare parts for the distributor other than rotor, cap and cables. The story was: we make so many many types of dists,
at the factory that we do not stock individual parts like springs, weights etc. I could however at the time purchase a brand new distributor from them for something like 600 USD, where the same item from Lamborghini was 1200 USD at the time.
    At the time I worked at a company that did a lot electromechanical devices, so some of the guys gave me different types of spring wire, I could borrow a
stroboscope etc.etc. I ended up making a number of springs in different gauges of wire, widths and lengths. I then aged them in my baking oven according to
what the guys at work had told me to do. Next I put a set of springs in the distributor, mounted distributor unto the variable speed axle, started the stroboscope and
freezeframed so I could see at what RPM the movement started and when it hit max. After some fiddling I found the right advance curve.
     I do remember one puzzling item on the 12 cyl distributor, there is a rubber piece on the center axle that the weights hit when not running. The weird thing
is that the inner radius of the weights match perfectly up with the axle when the rubber is removed, when the rubber is installed, it only touches a few
places. When the rubber is removed the travel of the weights is equivalent to the full advance number that is is supposed to be at the crank. It seems like someone at Marelli forgot that the distributor only travels at half the speed of the crank and thereby should only have have half the advance degree at the distributor.
They then quickly added the little rubber piece as a fix. I'm not sure if this is also the case with the dual 6 cylinder dist. setup.
Uno
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As Uno and Fred have mentioned the first thing to do is to remove the three screws securing the top plate and using a small puller pull off the top plate and bearing as one assembly. Next remove the 6 screws securing the bottom plate and using a brass or alumium drift on the top skinny shaft, tap and push the entire shaft, 3 lobe cam, advance, lower bearing and bottom plate out. I see from the pics you have attached that you have already done this. It appears that the bearing on your 1968 distributor have already been replaced since the plates are held on by screws instead of by rivets. Before you go any further grab the lobe and see whether there is any play between it and the center shaft in its assembled position. Mark the position of everything as you disassemble further, including which advance spring goes where. Next check to see whether there is any play between the weights in their shafts. The holes tend to get elongated. Watch out for any tiny shims found between the advance springs and the small cups that ride inside the weights. The advance curve is adjusted by adding or subtracting these shims. Had you checked to see whether you were getting full advance on the car before removing the dizzys? Regards, Nash

Looks like you have separated the bottom plate from the bearing retaining plate. The original is riveted together(at least it was on my Espada). So it looks like the inner raceof the bearing is stuck onto the shaft. This is usually not a very tight fit. Spray some penetrant and reattach the bottom plate. Do the screws you have just screw into threads in the retaining plate? Use a bearing separator to then pull the bottom assembly off the shaft.The lower bearing # is 62202-2RS and the upper is 63000-2RS. Please remember that these are for a single distributor off a SII. Hope this helps.Regards,Nash
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Bobileff uses a Sun Machine to set up distributors. He has an adaptor ready made for the Miura distributor. I asked him to run the machine while I was there so I could see how it operates. It is actually pretty simple. Using that machine you could plot curves, etc. but what we actually did was compare the readings to the Miura curves. Everything was okay up until about 5000 rpm. We found that my points were fluttering at about 5000 rpm, which basically meant that they were not firing correctly when I was reving to 7000. Put in new points, etc. and corrected the timing on the car (the fly wheel marks were off, he had to put a new one!!!) transformed the power and torque curves on the car sufficient to make it very noticeable to me. Gary tried to convince me to change over to optical electronic set up, but I somehow can't get myself to do that (call me old fashioned). Alberto

What happened when the points fluttered on the Sun? i have not run a machine yet, but i have friend with one. Craig

The lights on the Sun machine that indicate when the points close started flickering somewhat erratically. When they fire correctly it's like a strobe light (not nearly as bright), the firing is very even. When they flutter, they flicker somewhat. It's an interesting process putting the distributor on the machine. Glad I saw how it is done. You can replicate the curve by having the machine turn the distributor at the various RPM's and reading the dwell off the machine. Plot those points together, and voila, you get a curve. What we did was verify that the distributor's reading matched up with the factory curve. Alberto
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I've got an S in for work right now and I'll be finishing the distributors this week. I will forward some photos in the next day or so. The Miura motors turn backwards relative to the front engine cars but because the distributors are on the other end of the motor, both setups use a counter-clockwise distributor, the same basic S 85.   The difference in distributors between the front engine cars and Miura is mainly in the amount of advance built in - 350 and 400s should have a curve with 25 total degrees while Isleros and Miuras have only 10 in the distributor or 20 total at the crank.   FYI, I've designed both 6 point reluctors for 2-distributor cars and 12 pointers for the single distributor cars that signal a magnetic pickup to fire an MSD box - no more points or phasing of points.   Geoff
I'm on the SF Peninsula in Redwood City now at 3014 Rolison Road. Contact me 650-766-5405 before you stop by as I'm sometimes out of the shop. Geoff

The lower bearing is sometimes available through your local bearing house. If not, I keep them in stock along with both styles of top bearings - thin ones for the early distributors, fat ones for the later type. Geoff
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In 1988 I drove my 400 GT 2+2 to the Monterey Historical Races and upon entering Laguna Seca Racetrack the engine made a loud knock and started running terribly. I pulled over and started taking things apart until I discovered that something was broken in one of the Marelli distributors. I extracted it and it was a piece of lead weight that had the signs of being pounded. It was an advance weight and I've since learned that they are important! With the weight removed the car ran good enough for me to return to Los Angeles. I then ordered a new set of weights (4 needed, 2 per distributor) from GT Car Parts: Part Number DW-1, $28.50/ea, total: $114 (1988 $). I disassembled the distributors and installed the new weights, but made the mistake of not renewing the advance weight springs (or testing the distributors on a distributor machine which would have indicated that I needed new springs). When you order these weights GT Car Parts includes a Xeroxed Advance Graph. All I can say is: Use It.   Fred

For a 400GT 2+2 - from GT Car Parts (c1988), points for the Marelli distributors: 710071-06 is one set of points (2 needed), 710071-07 is the other set (2 needed) In 1988 the cost was $11.50/set, so that would be @$45 for the 4 sets. these are Marelli numbers. Fred
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I have a picture of a Marelli poster that may help. See: http://www.parrotbyte.com/kbc/ferrari/MarelliDistributor.htm regards Kerry
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Some pics of the springs are about halfway down this page http://www.dinospider.com/distributor.html mikeyr
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dont know if these parts will work but - http://www.superformance.co.uk/fiat/fiatigne.htm
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Ferrari Marelli - The distributors (2) on my gt4 were goofed up when I bought the car. As you probably know, the two weights on a Ferrari distributor are supposed to work symmetrically to control the advance. The previous-previous owner had changed the springs/shims on one of the two weights (on each of the two distributors). While this non-symmetry works fine on the Chevys, it caused severe wear on my distributors’ advance components. After fixing the wear, I had to reset the springs and shims. I had a gun shop make some springs of the same gauge wire and diameter, which I cut and ground to size (several experiments). Then I experimentally fit my springs and shims and tested them using a crude system of weights to see how the assembles compressed against the outer ring/housing(?). When all four weights functioned as equally as I could get them, I assembled everything and tried the distributors on the car, using two timing lights. It was all shade tree, but I found on the first try that the curves of the two distributors tracked within a degree, right up the rpm range. I suspect my good results had a lot to do with a great distributor design (which I probably don’t fully understand) and a bit of luck. –tim d
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Ferrari Marelli - I had mine apart last year and found a number of shims under the springs that were used to adjust the advance curve. As the weights rotate out from the pivots due to centrifugal force, they sequentially press the springs against the outer housing. Adjusting the number of shims under the particular springs is what appears to be used to adjust the advance curve. If I remember right, one of my distributors had anywhere from 0 to 4 shims under the different springs, while the other distributor had 2 or 3 under each. This had me a little concerned so I made a mount on my drill press and rigged up a distributor test machine with a degree wheel. I mounted the distributor and drove it with a v-belt off the drill press. I also hooked up the coil and spark plugs on the same fixture so the full system would work. Then I just used a timing light to read the advance off the degree wheel as the distributor was turned at different speeds. I found the advance on the 1 distributor was at least 5-6 degrees off from the other one and was able to get them both to match the advance curve in the manual by adjusting the shims behind the springs. Was quite interesting. JBK
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Photos below S129C

Magneti Marelli S129C	advance assembly	advance mech parts	S129 shaft drum

Thank you John Allott series 3 Espada for S129C exploded photos and dimensions

2008-07-01 - additional info on S1 and S129C
Hi Jim, what is the model number on the Marelli dist? and the two stamped characters? what is the year of your S1? what is the diameter of the plastic ring where the weights come back to rest? thanks ...Craig

Hi Craig, Marelli # S 129 C, Stamped below model number-9G, 1969 Series 1 Number #7434, The inside diameter of the metal basket that captures the weights is approx. 2.590".
Distributor looks just like the unit in my other Espada #9284, Not sure if the guts are the same. Parts arrived today from GT Car Parts...The new brass weights look great! Hopefully I can find the time this weekend to re-assemble the distributor and spin it on the Sun Distributor Machine and confirm that the mechanical advance mechanism is working correctly.
Let me know if you would like some photos...Jim

Lamborghini USA Smog tags - leading to special distributors and timing specs

i need help with V8 info please

Magneti Marelli S127C
Long wire points 71094506 Short wire points 71094503 Rotor arm 71130801 Cap 71131201
127 used on Montreal

photos of a disassembled S127A,B,C,D wanted

http://www.allferrariparts.com - information with a Marelli search

	Distributor Condensor CE1E, 250 THRU 365GTB4 (MARELLI # 56181128)		$38
	Distributor Condensor CE36E, V12s (MARELLI # 56181128)		$12
	Distributor Points SHORT Lead 3 Spring, (MARELLI # 71007106)		$25
	Distributor Points Long Lead 3 Spring, (MARELLI # 71007107)		$25
95300040	Distributor CAP, V12 250 Thru 365s (MARELLI # 70388401)		$325

61012905	Distributor S129E, 365GTC4 EURO Version (MARELLI # 61012905)
71056003	Distributor Weight, DINO (MARELLI #71056803) for an S125C	not quite same as S85C	$48
71104102	Distributor Drum Assy Complete, DINO US Version (MARELLI #71104102)		$1,295

The point of this table info is to establish the base Marelli numbers for use in Lambo models.
A couple of long time vendors say that Marelli never supplied spare parts and therefore never had a catalog, or a listing of parts. Yet here are numbers for some of these very items at Dennis McCann. Whats up?

Marelli applications for review

P400 Parts List